Ken: Thank-you so much getting sharing your pursuit with us

Thanks for the latest quotation that we had not seen ahead of

I don’t know if you had entry to Douglas Richardson’s Plantagnet Ancestry or otherwise not, as it are created since the a resource for Americans with colonial forefathers regarding Plantagenet lineage. He offers as one of their evidences one to Joanna is actually new mommy regarding Gwladus Ddu the fact that Llewelyn gave new characteristics away from Knighton and you can Norton castles in Shropshire so you’re able to Ralph Mortimer whenever he and you will Gwladus had been married. It could was indeed unlawful to own Llewelyn supply Joanna’s property so you can a keen illegitimate child (or person who was not an infant away from Joanna). The characteristics off Norton and you can Knighton stayed in the Mortimer household members thereafter. The latest offer are, “That if the brand new Queen provide Land to a man which have a great lady out-of their kindred from inside the frank marriage, additionally the lady dyeth in place of procedure, the guy regarding Leaders situation should perhaps not hold it for his lives, since lady was the cause of new provide.” To phrase it differently, the latest attributes could have reverted back again to the top ahead of it would-have-been supplied to an infant who was simply perhaps not Joanna’s.

Hey, Marilyn, I did not have access to the latest Plantaganet Origins of the Doug Richardson, however, did get access to the numerous discussions connected with him and you may his concepts together with other genealogists (particular getting him, but the majority of together with up against). In my opinion, whenever i produced in my personal earlier in the day report, that just what shifts it in my situation(Joanna as the mother away from Gwladus), ‘s the transfer of your own attributes your talk about so you can Ralph de- Mortimer up on their ed two of its people ‘John’ and ‘Joan.’ I can not that is amazing in the event that Gwladus is the fresh ded their particular college students ergo. Inspite of the objections between the eminent genealogists We speak about significantly more than, there is certainly a broad consensus you to Gwladus Ddu should be fairly defined as new daughter away from Llywelyn ab Iorwerth from the Joanna, daughter (after that legitimised) of John, Queen off The united kingdomt. Let me take it opportunity to accept Sharon (from inside the an email to me) you to Llywelyn’s daughter Gwenllian is actually by Tangwystyl and never Joanna, thereby getting blood sis in order to Gruffudd. I feet it partially to the a contemporary number found in ‘Regal and other Historical characters Illustrative of one’s rule of Henry 111,’ edited from the Rev. Walter W. Shirley, vol step one. With the profiles five hundred-503 ‘s the transcript out-of exclusive letter dated Marshall, Earl of Pembroke, to help you King Henry 111. Within this page, Marshall covers his siege of castles regarding Crum, Kilmore and you may O’Realy. The guy directories the individuals he based in the palace O’Realy when it surrendered, they provided: “…uxor Wilelmi de Lascy, filia Leulini, soror Griffini de patre et matre, et uxor Thomae Blund fratis dicti Willelmi, mais aussi mater dictorum Willelmi et Thomae ….” I’m told this means that i have here Gwenllian, child off Prince llywelyn, whom is apparently entitled ‘sibling from Gruffudd.’ As we know Gruffudd becoming the latest illegitimate son out of Llywelyn, it is taken one to ‘de- patre mais aussi matre’ ensures that Gwenllian and you can Gruffudd was basically full bloodstream cousin and you may cousin. Got Gwenllian started Joanna’s daughter and this Queen Henry’s niece, absolutely Marshall might have commented thereon fact? That it incapacity out of de Lacy’s spouse due to the fact king’s niece, try taken as close specific evidence one Gwenllian wasn’t this new child of king’s cousin Joanna.

These services had been section of Joanna’s maritagium away from their unique father King John

Ken: Many thanks for you to reference to Gwenllian. I am definitely not a specialist genealogist, however, I do a number of research by myself outlines. I believe some of the “pros” are incredibly jealous and you will mad of each other (at the very least apparently ways in a few of the things they blog post). You’ll find items that we have been simply not gonna see confidently on members of the fresh MA because they did not continue public record information such as for instance i do today, therefore genealogists and you can historians need to use their very best wisdom inside sorting things out. In fact, vital records are a pretty “new” layout caribbean hot women – of many claims in the usa failed to continue info from births and you will deaths till the early 1900’s. We end up in multiple descent communities in which I’ve had to help you confirm eleven otherwise several years, and you may trust me it is hard. And so i extremely appreciate the problem off contrasting MA ancestors. (While the sad point is the fact that the records that exist towards MA was of royalty and you can nobility – absolutely nothing at all into the prominent anyone).